Casters

[l0lwut]

I hear that playing a full caster is freaking hard because everyones saves are really high.

The hide gives +7 to all saves. My theory is that this is given to all non-monster PCs to help balance out their lack of monster properties, such as immunities. If I am correct, then I think it would be better to change that +7 saves into something else. Perhaps +stats, or +skills. If I am wrong, and the +7 is there just because, then I think it should be removed.

Please post how you feel about this issue. We must protect the interests of our mage-inclined players!

[couchninja]

I shall say this.
The first item I literally saw in a store gave you 5 resistance to magic damage.
This renders Isaac's Greater Missle Storm almost 50% less effective.
Why is this spell banned again?

[Hoboz]

Often times the bracer with -5 Magic will go unused (but I myself pack it against lesser missile storms on Lyndon >.>). While the Arcane Armor with -10 which completely destroys the Greater Missile normally is limited to Dexers, Monks, and Mages since it's the only good piece of cloth I've seen. Yes, now that I think about it only one who really gets hurt by the GMS would be warriors :/ (From a PvP perspective though)

I'm not entirely sure the reason though for it's ban, perhaps due to the low-hp of the server it kills too quickly or something without that magic damage resist? *shrugs*

[Coolreject]

Isaac's Greater Missile Storm is banned because when a level 25 caster casts it, it is a sure-fire 1 hit kill for every character on the server right now. That's lame.

[couchninja]

Jul 19, 2010 12:37:31 GMT -5 Coolreject said:

Isaac's Greater Missile Storm is banned because when a level 25 caster casts it, it is a sure-fire 1 hit kill for every character on the server right now. That's lame.

Fair enough. Though can't it be used for PvM reasons and simply a scripted restriction when used on PCs?

::Edit::
Or if people face mages, can't they just equip the magic resistance items? You know? TACTICS.
Mages have to buff up or get killed in a few hits, surely switching one piece of equipment to cut down on a truckload of damage isn't too much to ask.
It merely requires a tiny efford and a fraction of gold while enhancing the depth of the combat system.

[Coolreject]

I'm not sure that requiring everyone to buy a specific bracer just to avoid getting 1-shotted by a mage is a good thing.

By the time someone finds out a mage can cast IGM, they're already dead. I mean, if a person doesn't have the right bracer equipped at the time the spell is cast, the mage can instantly kill them.

I also really don't want to bring back the resistance-swapping cheese of early local vault PvP servers. Having everyone buying the same bracer just to deal with mages doesn't add anything interesting or tactical to the server.

[couchninja]

Well, then how about this:
-We make the greater missle storm legal
-Every armor now comes standard with 10 magic resist.

For the sake of PvM, all I can do at the moment is either cast that crappy lesser missle storm, use my high-level spell slots on deathspells (which do not work on everything)
OR I whip out my good attack spells, and then my entire party is annihilated.
The greater missle storm is 'imperative' for fighting large groups with a party, if you are a mage.

[Coolreject]

It really is much simpler to just remove one crappy overpowered spell rather than to make sweeping changes to the mod just to accommodate it.

[couchninja]

Very well. I digress the point.
I cannot argue about the amount of efford you wish to put into the matter.

[SotU]

If I am wrong, and the +7 is there just because, then I think it should be removed.

The +7 to all saves for PCs was handed out because initially, casters were a problem in PvP. This made for a quick resolution or at least a step in the right direction. Removing it won't go very far for improving caster playability since most combat is PvM anyways.

For the sake of PvM, all I can do at the moment is either cast that crappy lesser missle storm, use my high-level spell slots on deathspells (which do not work on everything)

Are monster reflex saves too high?

[couchninja]

Jul 31, 2010 1:16:31 GMT -5 SotU said:

Are monster reflex saves too high?

Yes. And their fort, and their will.
Spells, in D&D, are designed to 'do something'.
While every NPC I meet has saves equal if not bigger to my spell DC. I even tested whail of the banshee on a bunch of trolls and they rolled well in the 40 / high 30's. Even with as high a spell DC as possible for necromancy the chance of failure is higher than the chance of sucess. This doesn't work at all when you do not have infinite spells. The groups aren't large enough to warrant any kind of AoE effect when compared to a Cleric's melee potential.

[SotU]

I'll make a caster soon and check it out.

[Xarn Xen'net]

Having played a caster almost exclusively, I can definitely vouch for the fact that most 'combat' NPCs have saves that even a god would be jealous of. Hell, there's a reason why Xarn has 7-9 Wail of Banshee's slotted at all times. Because generally a nat 1 is the only way I can hit a 'combat' NPC with any effect that is completely negated by a save (even necromancy, which my DCs for are about as high as they can get for the server). And then the only time I can get something is on a 'save for half damage' which most monsters seem to be able to evasion out of anyway or have such high resists that the damage is pitiful.

Another point also, if I may?

Make the saving throws match the monster. I've encountered Orcs here that have better will saves than a monk. I can see fort and maybe a semi-decent reflex (even though being 'slow witted' should hamper them a bit), but an orc with high will saves? Just not cool.

Eventually one of these things are gonna kill Xarn and then his daughter won't have a daddy. Think of the poor lycanthrope baby... T_T

[Xarn Xen'net]

Pardon the double post, but another thought struck me.

As...controversal as this may sound, I'm also of the belief that most of the NPCs are far more powerful than they should be.

I mean...apart from a few 'key' villains, their personal lackeys, and maybe the random 'super trooper' army for an 'end of the world plot', most NPCs are (or should be) just normal humans. Cannon Fodder. The common folk, you know...morons. The PCs are the 'heroes'. Epic levels are just that. The boundaries of the super human. Normal people (bandits, guards, typical adventurers, etc) shouldn't be able to ever reach that kind of transcendental existence.

Like I said before, pardon if this is hits a few sour notes. But the 'magic' of being the 'hero/villain' is kinda lost when you have a town chock full of guard that can give most people (who aren't kybshe) a run for their money on a GOOD day. I know its for 'balance' reasons, but on a server where the DMs control the vault, the items, and it's not a free for all like Evereska was, we shouldn't need uber guards to keep the peace or enemies that have to be so strong that only powerbuild characters (with decked out equipment) stand a chance of fighting them.

Am I right or am I clear off my rocker? *shrugs* Who knows (certainly not I). But...eh...just my two cents. Take it all with a grain of salt or not at all if you care to. Just my personal ranting that does not necessarily reflect the views or opinions held by this server or its staff.

[SotU]

Epic levels are just that. The boundaries of the super human.

The problem with this logic is that while we play in the epic levels, we're actually not epic. In terms of balance (saves put aside), I think the NPCs are perfect as is; you can take about any NPC 1:1 and even often 1:3 but when you're outnumbered, chances of survival are slim. But this should be taken to another thread if continued.